IC XC

Obama is different from Hillary



Here's a little political bout between a far right friend of mine, let's call him "Candy" and center-left me.

Candy- "Ok, summary of what he said...people can't afford health care, fix that with tax cut for the non specific working people, he worked on a bill, cuz that is how washington works, and there should be a website. Those don't add up to saying much, I am still waiting. I have to admit though, he can't be all that bad if he will answer the phone at 3 in the morning. (but I fail to see how a website, a tax cut for unspecifieds and answering phones will fix the effing"status quo!") I must have missed the E in the charlatan APES, that is, hightened Expectaions. I am adding another right leaning group just to get this bland taste out of my mouth."

Me- "unfortunately the right has already stimulated their base support by demonizing their opponents. they use cute acronyms to lower expectations. so while radical left wingers are hearing what they want to hear so are the right wingers. members of the far left and the far right have conditioned themselves to have beliefs in place before any data is observed. not only is it poor science it's also poor politics. Obama was answering a bullet point question so there can be no "at length" answers. He demonstrated rather effectively that he is not the a radical left socialist (like Clinton) when it comes to health care. Rather his efforts are aimed at providing the citizens of the richest nation in the world with the quality benefits that the third world has been offering their citizens for decades. the "status quo" buckles under pressure and changes "its" plans at the last minute to make the people happy. Americans are tired of old politics."

Candy- "And the new politics seem just as empty as the last one. The apes is actually an apologetics thing and has nothing to do with politics, though it fits nicely. I don't like the right representative, he is off his rocker and wouldn't know common sense (also known as the "great right conspiracy") if it ran him over. I hate politics for this reason, a bunch of arrogant idiots like "our" nominee are made out to be fools by well timed and insubstantial rhetoric. I like the way he speaks, but I hate it when someone addresses problems and claims the need for change, yet can't seem to suggest a solution. Change is a great idea if you have a goal and a means to attain that goal. I am even ok with the answer "I don't know." But if all you can stand on is a rally to change that is composed of fluff such as the status quo is a major problem and it needs to change, then you have nothing at all. No, I take it back, you have a blind rage at the present state of things and no place to direct it"

Me- "The reason why Obama is doing so well is because he represents, for most, a new kind of politics. not the kind of spiteful partisan smears we've seen from the likes of Bush, Bush W, Clinton, Mrs. Clinton and Kerry. Listen carefully to that speech. does he sound angry? no. did he even say anything negative about the Bush administration? no. All he said was that either he or his opponent, Clinton, would be an improvement. He said nothing stronger than Bush's "mistakes were made" apology, which was fluffy rhetoric that was conducive to virtually no progress . . . or "progerse". Whether Obama will usher in the new politics is a question only time can answer. As for his "solutions": by your own criteria, Clinton is the best candidate right now. she has loudly offered her solutions e.g. pull out now, everyone gets health care damn it even if you already have it, tax hike (especially for the upper class) to stabilize debt etc. Now, Obama concisely laid out his health care strategy, he's for pulling out in Iraq (over [a short period of] time), and he's against the kind of petty smear tactics that the Clinton and Bush machines are riddled with. Those sound like answers to me. perhaps not good ones, but he can't be accused having said nothing. I admit that the last couple of months he was slow going in defining his policies. I too was tired of the "change" chants. but in retrospect it was an amazing strategy. He connected with his audience on a level separate from politics. As for APES . . . i know ;) Obama is to election 08 as Kennedy was to election 61. Fresh blood. My call has been and is Obama will take the white house. i guess we'll see."

Candy- "I still have problems with the way things are being run on the left though. Have you read what Obama's church says? Talk about bias! And why is it that no one can access Mrs. Obama's thesis until after elections, hmmmm? This sounds like a form of sensorship like would be in a socialist government. I don't know who sealed that thesis, perhaps hillary while she waits to pull out the long knives for Obama. That thesis happens to be inflamatory and very biased against certain people. I did notice the way Obama sounded and it would be hard for the Frank guy to make a sitcom skit out of Obama. So the comedians will all have to get new subject matter in 5 years or so. The F word is only funny the first hundred times. Back on track, if you look at what Obama's church (20 years' attending) and what his wife stands for..."I can now, for the first time be proud of my country." What is that?! Solomon had it right, A lovely woman without discretion is as a gold ring in a pig's snout. o it isn't that I am blind, biased, ignorant, arrogant and just plain stupehh. I will not support someone who lacks character and is afraid to state what they stand for. Yes, he has finally said something and no, Hillary is not the best canidate. You are spot on in saying that he is different and represents fresh blood. That is a perfectly truthful observation. The problem is that the healthcare is not payed for by tax cuts, but by tax increases. This is a forced "pay your own way" policy. But that isn't solcialist at all, pshhh. If you happened to miss that little bit because NObody reported it, you need to more closesly examine your beliefs about the candidates. Don't just give something new the benefit of the doubt, when doubt comes from logical conclusions based on the only facts there are. ;)"

Me- "It's ridiculous to associate Obama with his pastor's beliefs after he publicly denounced them. an attack on Obama because of his pastor had to have been much more well timed that it was. but it would have been fruitless all the same. As for his thesis, who knows? maybe it's biased against radical muslims in any case it doesn't matter. our harvard boy is entitled to his own academic prowess. And if it is against the "white man" it's surely more academic than it is emotional. it is called a thesis after all. Concerning his wife, so what? she thinks america has been pretty lame for the past few decades (who doesn't?) why is that the same as "lacking discretion"? can't an intelligent person not support their country's actions. shame for the country only demonstrates her patriotism. If she was apathetic she'd have nothing to be ashamed of. If she were anti-american she would a) leave or b) rejoice in the country's suffering. but since she has done neither, there is no substantial argument against her. Obama has stated what he believes. over and over. every time some right wing job comes on the scene saying Obama is "secretive" or that we "don't" know enough, Obama rises to it and states it again. He's a Liberal! not center-left like the majority of the country (see the congressional elections i don't care what Rush or Fox News have to say about the "country's values"). He's not a nancy pelosi whacked-nut-job either. He's simply a leftist candidate who hates lobbyists-politics, partisanship, and economic standards that are discriminatory against the lower class and pander to upper. i also don't know why "socialism" is a dirty word. the strongest economy in the world (England's) is what it is because it is essentially a far right socialist country. yeah problems here and problems there blah blah nothings perfect. but almost none of them would trade their politics/economy/health care/war position/oil dependency/education for ours. last word for me: what i like most about Obama is that he is for accountability! i've heard no other candidate talk about making public our government's spending. i'm fine with relatively mild tax increases. tax-cuts are not the be all end all of economic problems (see FDR) i don't care what O'Reilley or Chief Taylor says. How many other candidates have released their income tax returns?! that's huge! a candidate will show the people exactly what he spends?! he takes no money from lobbyists at all! what i'm not sure about is how his transparent and accountable policies match up with other items that are "secret" for now. maybe he's a closet muslim. i'm not some blind follower of flashy and new and neither are you (check out our cars). If it comes to a McCain/Hillary 'bout i'll likely not vote."